Monday, May 26th, 2008...6:06 pm
#36: Breastfeeding
The Best Parent Ever is better than you because they breastfeed. Well, not only do they breastfeed, but they scorn anyone who doesn’t breastfeed, and greet the mere mention of infant formula with the same revulsion reserved for genocidal maniacs and serial killers.
The truth is: everyone knows by now that breastfeeding is one of the best things a mother can do for their child. But infant formula is not rat poison. It is a lesser source of infant nutrition, yes, but it is not a game-ender. A good chunk of North America grew up exclusively on infant formula, and most of us didn’t turn out so bad… well, except for global warming and a world financial meltdown or two.
Do not tell this to the Best Parent Ever, though. Other than the Sun crashing into the Earth and killing us all, failing to breastfeed one’s child until they are well on their way to grammar school is perhaps the greatest crisis confronting the Best Parent.
So take that, milk-drained mom who just needs a break for one night! You can either pull out the leche luggers one more time, or let your child suffer a Similac-induced life of failure and futility. The “choice” is yours… Formula? Or Best Parent Ever.
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129 Comments
May 27th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Wow, normally your posts are hilarious. But this one was not. Study after study has shown the numerous deleterious effects of infant formula and the unending benefits of breastfeeding. Not only for the child, but for the mother. As as for our society ending up “just fine” — um, look at the rates of childhood disorders and weight issues. As well as weight issues for adults and the rates of breast cancer (which decreases per year depending on how long a woman breastfeeds).
I agree, of course, that formula isn’t rat poison — my own son was supplemented with it since I wasn’t able to pump what he needed per day while I was at work. But your blog this time was more ignorant than funny.
Forget the controversial arguments about IQ and what not. Just look at the hard facts about tangible health issues awith respect to breastfeeding v. formula feeding. For example, you can start with this list:
http://www.promom.org/101/index.html
I am afraid that your blog will only reinforce the misguided Western notion that breastfeeding is a “whatever” or that it’s gross, and that breastfeeding advocates are weird, high strung people.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
LOL!! Good one. Lacto-Nazis drive me up the wall!
May 28th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Let’s not stoop down to name-calling using names that refer to a horrible time in history, please. It’s also not nice and rather juvenile.
Also, not all breastfeeding advocates are formula-haters and nutty. Many of us are “normal” Jane Does. Since having my son, I have helped numerous mothers get a good start in breastfeeding, and it is a joy for me to do it.
Also, there are people out there who are really fanatical about NOT liking breastfeeding - they think it’s gross or against their religion. Why not criticize them for their ignorance rather than go after breastfeeding advocates who are actually helping others give the best start they can to their children?
May 29th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Study after study has shown that making fun of the breast is best crowd will definitely get someone showing up to say That Isn’t Funny, Let Me Point out the Health Benefits of Breastfeeding….
May 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
A coworker of mine is a nursing nazi, but, get this, she smokes. Even if breast milk of a mother who smokes is still better than formula, I still think it’s hypocritical of her to go on and on about how mothers who formula feed are bad mothers, and she smokes. Even if she does not smoke around the child, a child is going to know, and it sets a bad, unhealthy example. So any benefits of being breast fed are thrown out the window when the child starts to smoke later in life.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
What is so funny about the whole “controversy” is that no one cares whether you were formula or breast fed once you’re past the age of 3! Not once has anyone asked me how I chose to feed my now 5 year old, and not once have I been asked in my 35 years whether I was ff or bf. It is such a non-issue that LACTO-NAZIS love to perpetuate anyway. Anything that makes you feel superior in some way, I guess!
May 30th, 2008 at 2:51 am
huh? The benefit of breastfeeding is not in telling people that you did it or feeling superior. It’s about providing the best nutrition possible while also being anice bonding experience. I’m not sure what mommashay is trying to say…
May 31st, 2008 at 5:47 am
This is hysterical. Nothing says inferior mom than trying to bash others for their choice. Im happy that women can chose between two types of feeding for their child. No one should be made to feel bad in that choice. Thanks for the obviously over the top laughs.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 am
Gee, what can I say……………. so many things come to mind .
There is a reason women have breasts…….to feed babies, doesn’t make women who breastfeed Lacto-Nazis. People are passionate about different things, some are over the top but that goes with anything.
Breast is best, anyone with half a brain knows that. If you can’t breastfeed then you use formula.
You are an idiot…………….
June 2nd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
If breastfeeding is only for the nutritional value, then why don’t they continue their crusade by advocating organic milk over processed? Why does my coworker bring her older children to work and feed them a lunch of McDonald’s cheeseburgers and fries? To some it is just a platform from which to pronounce their superiority because they do not continue their dedication to nutritional value for their children throughout their lives.
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
i think that tempering your passion (on any subject) comes with experience
when you first catch onto an idea it is nearly impossible for some people (ummm . . . me) to be all cool and calm when presenting your “case”
passion is needed to encourage action - but after some time you figure out how to share your story in a non-judgemental way - you learn how to say the things you feel passionately about in a way mama’s will hear it - that can take time
noone can “make” you feel like an inferior mama - and that is certainly not the goal of breastfeeding activists - for years women were told that formula is just as good as breastmilk, it is not - we trying to change that mind set - sure we may make mistakes, but noone is perfect
we all get on our soap box from time to time - give the benefit of the doubt to overly zealous mama’s, they are just trying to make the world a better place for mama’s and babies
and yes, breastfeeding will accomplish that
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:15 pm
sheesh you guys… When your kids are teenagers it’s not going to really matter if they were breastfed or not. Sure it’s good for them, but formula is fine too!
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 pm
sure formula is fine . . . but breastmilk is best, not just “good” for them
this is not only because of the immediate benefits, but because of the, scientifically documented, long-term benefits
when my boys are teenagers and adults i know that i will see the benefits of having breastfed them
here are some helpful links that list the long term benefits of breastfeeding for your child:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020500.asp
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020200.asp
http://www.breastfeeding.com/all_about/all_about_more.html
here is a link on the long term benefits of breastfeeding for mama:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020700.asp
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
after they’ve weaned, they’ll be less likely to have allergies and asthma; when they’re teenagers, the higher IQ will matter; when they’re in their 20s, it will be easier for them to maintain a healthy weight; when they’re fifty, they’ll be at less risk for diabetes and cancer.
breastfeeding advocates look at the rates of childhood illness and know a lot of those illnesses would be eliminated by breastfeeding. and then they hear folks say things like “formula is fine.”
which is kind of like saying “fresh veggies and fruits are good for your kids, but they can live on catsup and kool-aid, too.”
well, no. and wishing doesn’t make it so. formula’s inferior. it’s a substitute when the real thing isn’t available. period. no one should feel bad for doing the best she can, but we don’t need to kid ourselves, either.
women who do care that babies have the best chance are sometimes going to gather their courage and speak up about it, the same way they speak up about car seats and pollution and dangerous toys and a lot of other things that some folks think are “fine.”
calling such women a name that classes them with the worst mass murderers in human history? please.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
(clap) (clap) (clap) standing ovation for Mati
very well said
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:17 pm
how do you think all you self-righteous breast feeding mothers make those of us who didn’t breast feed for medical reasons feel? my milk never came in. no doctor i saw, and i saw many in my long struggle to make it come in, not one of them could tell me why i didn’t get any breast milk. for the love of god, please don’t tell me here, but honestly give it a rest. you have no idea why people don’t breastfeed, some of us wanted to and couldn’t.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
scrapperchick, i am very sorry that you were not able to breastfeed and any descent, caring person would never hold that against you - i understand that there are valid medical reasons for not being able to breastfeed
i am sure that you are a phenomenal mother and whether you breastfed or formula fed doesn’t change that - but in the same thought just because you couldn’t breastfeed doesn’t change my passion for wanting to educate mom’s on the benefits of breastfeeding - i hope you can understand that
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
scrapperchick, life can be hard and it’s not fair.
i didn’t want to give birth prematurely and am sorry it happened, but that doesn’t make my midwife wrong for encouraging the mothers she works with to do everything they can to go to term. a full-term baby is better off than a preterm baby. a breastfed baby is better off than a formula-fed baby. what’s the point of avoiding the truth?
as i said, no one *ever* has to feel bad about doing what she can. feeling bad about not breastfeeding if you literally couldn’t is refusing to forgive yourself for being human. your body is what it is, and your baby loves it.
breastfeeding advocates are trying to get to women who believe there’s no difference, or not enough difference to justify the learning curve and those tough first few weeks. in doing so, they’re countering decades of misinformation and distortion. if truth’s what you’ve got, it’s what you use.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Dittoing the sentiments of Mati. Supporting breastfeeding has nothing to do with making judgments of women who cannot breastfeed for medical reasons. They (the ones who can’t for legitimate medical reasons) are in a class of their own, and I personally do not include them in the same group of women who just flat-out refuse to breastfeed due to feelings that breastfeeding is gross or against their religion, or that it’s inconvenient, or that formula is “good enough” or better, and other groundless sentiments.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Supporting breastfeeding has nothing to do with making judments of women at all. No amount of judging will make a woman breastfeed if she really doesn’t want to.
I’m all for supporting those women who want to breastfeed…more power to them. Those who don’t should be left alone, no judgement calls, no harrassment, no bullshit. It is in failure to accept the choices of women who believe differently than you that lactivists earn the Lacto-Nazi moniker. Not in that you are mass murders, but that you will not tolerate any dissent.
Besides, “goose-stepping followers of an extraordinarily harsh dogma” is too much of a mouthfull!
June 4th, 2008 at 12:37 am
There is a big difference between supporting someone who breastfeeds, and tearing down a mother for using formula. The later there is no excuse for. So what if they formula fed. It was their own personal choice, something that you have NO RIGHT to judge at all. If breastfeeding is the best, then let it be and let it speak for itself. No need to bash anyone who makes a different choice just to make yourself feel better about your own choice. I think that’s the message of this entire blog to begin with. They do it so over the top in hopes that everyone can read the sarcasim. Obviously we all want what is best for our children, but sometimes people take that too far by thinking only their choices are what works for all. There is no one size fits all approach to parenting.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Nursing *is* healthier by far than formula, but you’re right, some moms take it way the heck too far and end up making formula moms feel like crap. No fair, mommies!! And this is from a woman who nurses my babies and is a big breastfeeding advocate. : ) Formula ain’t the end of the world and it isn’t worth hurting another mom’s feelings over!
June 5th, 2008 at 1:16 am
Ahh….of course…..the moment you mention that yes, there are women out there who certainly earn the moniker of “lacto-nazi”, people come out of the woodwork to defend their actions. Yeah, ’cause it’s totally cool to publicly judge other moms who have made different decisions- everyone is doing it apparently!
I want to know why it would be considered in bad taste to walk up to a parent feeding their child McDonald fries and lecture them about nutrition and claim that they are poisoning their child….yet apparently it’s perfectly acceptable for a lacto-nazi to approach me while feeding my daughter a bottle and lecture me about how both the formula and the bottle will apparently make her a subpar human being *eye roll*. Yep, it has happened.
Holy shit people, the blogger isn’t saying that breastmilk isn’t ideal- she is saying that those uppity “best parents ever” use it as a means to put other moms down- which does happen. And I hope that they choke on their smugness.
(For the record- this is coming from someone with inverted nipples and an underweight baby with a tongue-tie- 6 weeks of appts with a lactation consultant didn’t make my daughter latch on properly, so I don’t understand why the lacto-nazis think that somehow they are helping the situation by claiming that I didn’t try hard enough)
June 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I judge women that formula feed.
Babies are born to be breastfed. In no way, shape or form is formula even comparable to breastmilk. The ignorance some people have regarding formula vs. breastmilk is really sickening.
HUMAN breastmilk is for human babies, COW breastmilk is for baby COWS!!! It’s really not a hard concept to grasp. It really just goes to show all those statistics on breastfeeding are true (Mothers that breastfeed are smarter, etc….).
June 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Because randomcanadianmom, you DIDN’T try hard enough. If this was 500 years ago and you had those problems, I guarantee you would have still been successful at breastfeeding. Why? Because if you didn’t breastfeed, your baby would have starved to death.
Your excuses don’t fool anyone who has actually breastfed.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
With all due respect to stoptheexcuses, you don’t know the lengths that randomcanadianmom may have gone through to breastfeed. It is also possible that 500 years ago, her baby may have died due to inability to breastfeed. Formula was created to save lives - however, its use has been misused and overused, and has enveloped the goodness of breastmilk.
People have all kinds of problems in the West trying to breastfeed - the main problem is lack of support. Hospitals, pediatricians, and society simply do not have knowledge on how to support breastfeeding moms.
I believe the way to increase breastfeeding rates is through education, public programs, and banning hospitals from giving away free formula and products from formula companies. NOT through name-calling and making women feel guilty.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
IsabelleB- is it lonely up there on that pedestal, or are there other uppity moms who have nothing better to do than worry about what other people feed their kids up there keeping you company?
stoptheexcuses- I’m pretty sure that the knowledge of 2 board certified Lactation Consultants beats your own- if this was 500 years ago my baby just may have died.
LMS- thank you, this is exactly my point.
Guilting mothers into breastfeeding accomplishes absolutely nothing. If anything, it promotes PPD, as women are made to feel like failures if they aren’t successful (as evidenced above). I live in a country and city where breastfeeding is heavily promoted- to the point where after you give birth it is assumed that you will breastfeed, and nurses are trained to assist in this. However, the reality is that not everyone is able to breastfeed successfully, either due to physical problems with the child or the mother. Beating someone down for this only makes YOU look like an ass, and is counterproductive to your cause.
June 6th, 2008 at 1:44 am
I stopped breastfeeding because I had to start taking medication for PPD. Without this, I don’t know if I would be here, if I would have a family, if I would have my child.
Who gave “best parents ever” the right to make me feel like shit for trying to live?
June 6th, 2008 at 2:39 am
Off the bat, I breastfed three babies successfully. I empathize with anyone who tried and couldn’t because it certainly isn’t easy. The pain I suffered in the beginning was far worse than labour and delivery, in my opinion. I applaud anyone who gives it a shot but I would never look down on anyone who didn’t. To each her own.
That said, I’ve met my share of “formula-nazis” too. I’ve heard these women say that breastfeeding is gross and they want to keep their firm and perky breasts as reasons for formula feeding. Funny thing is, these are usually the same women with $1000 strollers, ridiculous 1st birthday parties, swedish highchairs, and rabidly seek out the most popular preschools. Go figure.
I get a kick out of this blog - but this particular entry was just way off the mark for me!
And further to LMS’ point, society truly does NOT know how to support breastfeeding moms. I have teetered on far too many a public restroom toilet trying to feed a fussy infant. Would it really kill an establishment to provide simply an empty stall with a chair?
June 7th, 2008 at 12:36 am
this is pretty hilarious! Canadianmom…i had the same issues - met with tons of lactation consultants - my issue was i had no milk - i went on both eastern and western and homeopathic meds to help with the production, but i could only ever produce about 3 ounces a day…definitely wouldn’t get my babe into the 95%tile like other best parents!! It was ridiculous the pressure that i felt from EVERYONE - my neighbour who doesn’t speak english walked up to me and grabbed her breast as if to say “are you breastfeeding”? WTF? Do I grab my crotch to ask if she’s mensturating??
Yes, I know breast is best, and I am hoping that my child won’t be completley stunted and held back from every grade - but, he is 9.5 months old and he is walking, so he can’t be that stupid!
And for those who made the comment about canadianmom not trying hard enough and if it was 500 years ago her baby would be dead - I doubt it…that was when the whole community raised a child and they had wet nurses, and if she couldn’t breastfeed, then someone else would have!! Many societies still do! In Canada (Vancouver) there is actually a breastmilk bank that you can buy breastmilk from - however, I don’t live there, so I didn’t have that option.
People need to stop and think before they speak - especially when the first thing you ask a new mother is “are you breastfeeding?” How about trying “Hey…how’s it going, how are you feeling, is your baby healthy?”
June 9th, 2008 at 3:24 am
I am very pro-breastfeeding and do not feel that breastfeeding is really supported, especially past 6 months. Nobody tells a formula mom to go feed her baby on the toilet.
I do judge moms who say they don’t breastfeed because they don’t want to ruin their breasts (Pregnancy does it, not feeding your child), because it is “gross”–they are civilized and don’t need to practice such a barbaric custom, or because they don’t want to be tied down to their baby (then why have one?) so they can go party. Those things just don’t seem to me to outweigh the benefits to the child. I think that everyone who reasonably can breastfeed should. If your milkers don’t work that is nature’s fault, not yours and that is why we have formula. If you need meds for your health or sanity that are contraindicated then formula is a better choice for you. I don’t think the tax payers should have to pay for formula(WIC) for moms who just don’t want to breastfeed–it should only be “by prescription”/medical recommendation for welfare moms. if you can foot your own formula bill (for the formula and extra medical expenses) then it is just between you and your children.
That being said I would NEVER ask a mom how she fed her kid, or what kind of a birth she had because it is NONE of my business. What I hate is when you get “the look” or comments like you are acting like “The Best Parent” because of the choice you made. Some formula moms just assume you think you are better than them because of the choice you made.
I think it is rude to say someone didn’t try hard enough unless you know the person personally and know for sure they gave up the first day because it “felt weird.” It can be hard because sometimes you just want to know what happened so you can learn from their experience and that can come off like you are questioning if they tried hard enough. For instance, my daughter has a friend with a great mom who told me she had to go to formula because her baby was allergic to her milk and I’m thinking it probably was something in her diet, not her milk but i didn’t ask because there was NO point–the baby was already weaned anyway, she is not having any more, and there was nobody else around who might learn–except me if it turned out that the baby REALLY was allergic to the actual breast milk and not something in it. I would feel horrible if I made her feel like she hadn’t tried hard enough–if it was the peanut butter on her toast, or the milk she was drinking.
500 years ago a wet nurse , family member, or friend would have helped out a mom who could not have breastfed–3% of women can’t. Or the babies were sickly or died if they didn’t get enough. I think that attitude is why a lot of women aren’t successful breastfeeding–they buy into “it is easy and natural”, when sometimes it does take work, and then they get too frustrated when it doesn’t go like they think it should and the stress is counterproductive. It is the same with the “you are a failure if you don’t have 100% NCB because women had babies for thousands of years w/o doctors”– child birth also used to be a leading cause of death in women.
I don’t think any less of a woman who couldn’t breast feed. I do think less of women who belittle my choice to breastfeed. (Rolled eyes, comments etc) I’ve NEVER asked a woman if she did, and the people who have volunteered the info usually come off like they are proud that they didn’t buy into the “breast is best” BS–and I don’t respect ignorance.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
I’m a BF advocate, but this is a *humor* blog and the dig at the “all or nothing” granolactivists has a ring of truth to it.
However, it would be great to see an entry for the women who have 99.9 excuses for why they didn’t breastfeed. “I don’t want to ruin my boobies with icky perverted nursing” or “I’d be such an unhappy person if I kept breastfeeding and I don’t want my baby to sense my depression” or “I have no time for it because I think life should continue to be as much like it was before I had kids.”
You formula fed, big deal. Is the evidence that BF is better than formula overwhelming? Sure. But, fcol, yes, we know you love your children as much as we love ours, so stop making excuses and move on.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
And answer to nk: “Who gave “best parents ever” the right to make me feel like shit for trying to live?”
The only one who gave them that right was you. If you get over it, you won’t feel like shit anymore.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:23 am
To all the offended BF’ers:
Get over yourselves…the blogger made it clear that breast it was best…if you can’t laugh at yourself this isn’t the best place for ya!
June 11th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Hmm… so, where does that leave my son and daughter? My son is at a 3rd and 4th grade level, yet he’s just now going into 2nd grade because he’s only 7. So since he was FF.. you’d think, according to this post, he’d not be as smart as he is.
Someone didn’t do their research. *tsk*
Breast may be best IN some cases. Not all.
I know some breast fed people that are a few fries short of a happy meal.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:48 am
I think that it is so funny that some of the very ppl the author was talking about felt the need to post….lol
I formula fed all 3 of my sons….none of them are stupid in fact I was just told my oldest who is suppossed to be heading into grade 2 in September has the option to skip and head into grade 3. Not one of them has asthma or any other ailment (*knock on wood*) and they are very well adjusted little boys. I also CHOSE not to breast feed….heck I didn’t even give it a chance. My reasons are my own, mainly because I just wasen’t comfortable with the idea in general, and if the mother is not comfortable then how on earth is the baby going to be. Had I been a weaker minded person and feel pressured to do so I know that it would have been a terrible experience for both me and my sons…maybe even long term.
Of course I know that the breast is the best and to all that CHOSE to bf…way to go that’s awsome, but please don’t fool yourself into thinking both you and you kids are better off in the end because of it. Different from me and mine but in no way better. To each their own
June 11th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Yes, Meme, because your singular anecdotal evidence trumps overwhelming, voluminous data and long range studies done across cultures that account for diverse socioeconomic factors.
You’re the kind of discriminating mother that the media and politicians count on. Congratulations!
June 11th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Holy crap, ladies, this a humorous blog
I think it’s funny how the second someone touches bfing, all the BPEs come out of the woodwork to tell you all about it.
Shut. UP. We KNOW all of this you pretentious bastards. Mind your own tits and stay out of my business.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Uh-oh. Someone just posted a link to this entry on the Brest vs Bottle debate on ivillage. Here come the lactivist storm troops! This should be fun!
June 11th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Ha! I saw that too. Not a lot of comments yet though.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Wow, you’ve just given more ammo to those holier than thou mommies at the ivillage debate board who who feel they are number one in the mommy olympics simply because they bf. Most of those women there are such a newbie at parenting they fail to see that bf’ing is not the end all and be all of parenting.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Do you (general you) think it would be possible to lay off the term “Breastfeeding Nazi” or using Nazi at all to describe anyone who is passionate about their stance on this issue, be it on the BF or formula side of the coin? I find it highly derogatory. I have never yet met one formula feeder *or* breastfeeder who kidnaps people from “the other side” and gasses them by the millions. No matter *what* they might say to each other that could be catty, they will never be as bad as those murderers.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Sorry to disappoint those who expect an onslaught of nastiness from the iVillage debators. Most of us have figured out who has their fingers firmly in their ears, and who would be receptive to *actually debating* the issue. Unfortunately, on blogs such as this, the issue seems to devolve to “boo hoo! I am NOT a bad mommy! you’re just a bunch of Nazis!” This attitude has been very wonderfully demonstrated here. You should be *so* proud. BAER
Yes, there were a couple posts here from BF “advocates” that were off-the-wall and uncalled for. I don’t make excuses for people I don’t know, I just don’t appreciate being lumped into that category just because I happen to advocate breastfeeding. If you actually spend some time reading the debate over at iVillage, you’ll find very little snark and a lot of *gasp* actual information. The reason this blog hasn’t been discussed much is, we’ve heard it all before.
Breastfeed. Don’t breastfeed. I personally couldn’t care less. But when YOU (general) start coming at ME with your boo-hoo stories, don’t be surprised if I don’t sympathize. If you ask for info, you’ll get it. If you expect a pat on the back and a “there there, formula is just fine” then look elsewhere. We all hopefully do what we have to for our kids; sometimes our priorities are different. *shrug*
To the writer of this blog: The average BF advocate wouldn’t go around saying that formula is rat poison. That, I fear, is something you read into a statement, but wasn’t actually said. Be honest, people: have you ever been accosted in the formula aisle? Probably not.
It’s not OK to tell someone that they are killing their child; whether it’s by bottle or Mickey D’s. To the person who thinks that anyone feels that one is acceptable when the other is not: you should get new friends.
One more thing, to Stephanie…it is considered safer if you smoke to breastfeed than formula feed. Just so ya know.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
At least, in my humble opinion.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
I don’t think they’ll be crying over your humble opinion.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
hey Fio-
GET OVER IT! If you’re offended don’t read it. Do you go around looking for things to be pissed off about?
June 11th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Oh please put on your big girl panties & own your choices. Nobody can make anyone else feel guilty. Breastmilk is not the *best* it is the standard. Formula is sub-standard, a far cry from “rat poison” but doesn’t come remotely close to nature’s design. Sorry if the truth makes you cringe. If the choice was taken away from you, then what in the world would you have to feel guilty about? If you have the physical ability to breastfeed (like 95% of mom’s can) & you knowingly made a choice that was sub-standard & put your baby at increase risk of all types of diseases-don’t get pissed off at the facts. If anything maybe you should be pissed at God/Nature who designed the system.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Gee Mary, nice comments to leave on your debate board about people. And you women over there actually have the nerve to wonder why more ff’ers don’t debate? No, we don’t have our fingers in our ears, we just get sick of the bf’ers and and their stories of martyrdom (if they can face bf’ing obstacles anyone can, you’re just not trying hard enough, etc). Yes, alot of you are newbies over there; in a few years when your child stops bf’ing you’ll be able to step back and see that it takes more to be a parent than to bf. By the way, do you people over there always have to snoop on the EC boards and talk about people behind their back? Support boards are not there for you to ridicule or to be used for debate fodder. That board used to never be like that, I know.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
They may not be crying about my opinion, but they sure are complaining about it.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
The reason why many FF don’t stick around on the debate board is b/c they can’t stand the heat. And really, what would they debate? How great formula is? How its the same as BM? The medical research speaks for itself.
And for your info, a lot of the regulars over there, HAVE FF. So do a little research before you open your mouth.
And don’t worry about us getting offended, we always wear our big girl panties.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I think form feeder needs to deal with her issues and move on. Sheesh. On to things actually relevant to this blog…
I guess I don’t quite understand how the BPE even has time for breastfeeding. It would seem to really cramp her style. I mean for one thing, it can’t be outsourced! The BPE has to be there for each and every feeding. That really cuts into precious pilates time and dinner parties. I grant you that engorged boobs do increase the BPE’s MILFiness, but the same perkiness can be achieved with implants. I just don’t think the BPE can really risk breastmilk dripping (it can get quite messy!) on her Manolo Blahniks.
Nope, not buying it. The BPE is a formula feeder who tried “everything” she could to make it work. She just “didn’t make enough milk.”
June 11th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
You all need to get lives. I read this blog to laugh a little, but this is just getting to far. BF/FF - who cares, TEHO. Do what you need to for YOUR child and not worry about everyone else.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Care to explain why you debaters talk about people on EC boards behind their back? Don’t say you haven’t, because you’ve been reprimanded for it by the mods.
Oh, I’ve done my research; I know for a fact that board used to be run a lot better and didn’t have the condescending attitude that’s been so prevalent the past year or so. Seriously, it’s almost hilarious at times the way you women practically pat each other on the back just because you bf. The board is a turn-off plain and simple; you don’t want to debate, you just want to gloat about how great a parent you are based on one aspect of parenting-the feeding method you chose. Lose the attitude over there and more people will debate with you. Until that happens, have fun talking amongst yourselves (but that’s what you really want, right?)
June 11th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Care to explain why its handy dandy to talk about the debate board members on ECs? I seem to see a double standard.
If the board is such a turn off, why are you reading it?
BFing is hard work, so if I wanna ‘pat myself on the back’, I’ll do just that. Why is it others should feel guilty or judged over my personal accomplishment? Wait, unless, they *gasp* have issues?
And Ive never seen any gloating. Ive seen hard core facts some FF can’t wrap themselves around. (”lalalala, I can’t hear you”). Say what you want, I have heard it all before.
But really, you don’t want to debate. You want to try and tear down BFers. If you have so many problems with the board, how about you come over and tell us about it, instead of complaining about it here?
June 12th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Elizabeth…no I don’t. I don’t get easily pissed off either. But to compare anyone who is snobby, catty or otherwise *mean* in any way to people who were MASS MURDERERS is way beyond insulting and rude. Let’s just call everyone guerilla warriors while we’re at it. *eyeroll*
It doesn’t matter if someone is a passionate BFer or FFer, being called the N word is just totally uncalled for.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:13 am
Funny how breastfeeders point out how inferior formula is but formula feeders seem to want to point out how inferior breastfeedERS are. And, you’ll only every hear formula refered to as “rat poison” by formula feeders and the “bad mommy” accusation never came from the breastfeeders at all. It came as a denial from the formula feeders.
I find it very telling that this blog was essentially bashing breastfeeding advocacy and STILL the comments are as though it was written by a breastfeeder calling formula feeders names. Try seeing what’s REALLY there.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:27 am
you ladies are really obnoxious. just the type of “mommy wars” crap that makes me sick. why do you care about what other moms are doing? mind your own business and raise your kid.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:39 am
I haven’t even read all of these and my BP is already up….500 years ago if you couldn’t BF you WOULD give your kid cows milk or if you were rich you would hire a wet nurse. GET OVER IT!!
I could not BF with either of my kids….1. i never got any milk 2. I just didn’t want to
Who is anyone to judge me for it. you can all eat me if you think you are better than I am becasue I didn’t BF and didn’t want to. My kids are perfectly healthy children. At least our children are all being fed…..isn’t that all that matters.
Get off your freaking high horses.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:09 am
The Best Parent Ever -Squared-!
It is, in fact, hilarious that the notion of “Best Parent Ever” is fueled by those who envision a throne upon which they’d happily perch themselves… just as soon as they dispose of their imaginary foes and muster up enough gumption to stop looking over their shoulders. After all, they’re BETTER parents than the “Best Parents Ever”– knowing concretely not what is really so-called best and valuable in the game of childrearing, but that other parents are boobs for following through with what they believe in.
You get to be better than the “Even Better than Best Parent Ev-ah!” if you go on the offense with a pitiful defense against charges never laid. Take upany hysteria fueled lament (breastfeeding vs. formula feeding is always a good one) within arms reach, decry the shortcomings of your foes, and refer to them as Nazi’s & Storm Troopers for dramatic appeal if at all possible. Then throw yourself upon the “Better Mom” throne. You may rightfully claim it, of course, because you’re nothing like those silly parents who aspire to be “the best”. You are sooooooo better than that!
How’s that for irony?
June 12th, 2008 at 6:06 am
This whole back and forth is ridiculous. It seems the IV moms want to argue with the moms who formula feed. Ugh. It’s gross.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Have a few issues, do we? I suggest you read Kate’s post, maybe a few times. Methinks she’s referencing your diatribe.
So come on, Form Feeder! Put your money where your mouth is. You seem to think that the posters over there do nothing but post “stories of martyrdom (if they can face bf’ing obstacles anyone can, you’re just not trying hard enough, etc). ” Go right ahead and link those posts right here. You’ve “done your research,” so let’s have ‘em. I’ll wait. *whistles* If that’s all the board is about, you should be able to find hundreds of them, right?
“Yes, alot of you are newbies over there; in a few years when your child stops bf’ing you’ll be able to step back and see that it takes more to be a parent than to bf.”
You really don’t read over there, do you? Only about 1/3 of the active members have children who are still nursing. The rest have long since weaned and moved on, but still think it’s important to dispel myths perpetuated by the “Fingers in the Ears” crowd. Because there are always going to be people like you who prefer to tear down the person than present a rational argument.
“By the way, do you people over there always have to snoop on the EC boards and talk about people behind their back?”
Nope, we get plenty of chuckles just reading the comments here. And psssst, EC boards are public, so there’s no such thing as snooping. The debate board is also public, so tell me how we talk about people “behind their backs?”
“Support boards are not there for you to ridicule or to be used for debate fodder. ”
ANYTHING is up for debate. Something tells me you’ve had your hand slapped a few times yourself. (Not that I’d try to “out” you. That would be immature.
“Oh, I’ve done my research; I know for a fact that board used to be run a lot better and didn’t have the condescending attitude that’s been so prevalent the past year or so.”
*shrug* The board had no CL for several years, and if you *really* had lurked there before that you’d know that every other post was deleted. Your “fact” is really just your opinion, and we all know what opinions are like…everyone’s got one.
” Seriously, it’s almost hilarious at times the way you women practically pat each other on the back just because you bf.”
Here’s where you can prove your point again: let’s see a link.
But let’s say that’s true; does our support of one another bother you? If so, why?
” The board is a turn-off plain and simple; you don’t want to debate, you just want to gloat about how great a parent you are based on one aspect of parenting-the feeding method you chose. ”
Again, let’s see a link. If you’re turned off by the board, maybe you should stop lurking there. Its no skin off our backs. Really.
“Lose the attitude over there and more people will debate with you. ”
Thanks for your input. I doubt your idea of “debate” would stay up on that board long. They have rules over there, y’know.
Thanks for your input. I hope you’re feeling better today!
June 12th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
I guess some ppl don’t understand that some moms choose not to breastfeed for the simple fact that they are not comfortable doing so. Sure, I could’ve put my feelings aside and BF anyway but I know I would have been miserable, and that’s just not the way I wanted to feel being a new mom. I agree, breastfeeding is the natural way to go, the standard as many put it, but is not for everyone. No one should feel guilty, I certainly don’t. If I’m asked how I feed my child, I say FF and usually that’s followed by a “why” and I explain I did not feel comfortable with the whole idea…even to this day. That’s all….no need to explain further.
I think the whole FF vs BF debate is ridiculous…I mean, if BF is the standard then what is there to debate? There should be no board, no offence to the ladies on the IV board, but I’ve been there, and the reason there are no FF debating is cause BF will always be viewed as what you should do, all documents and doctor’s opinions are always in favor of BF…not much to debate on the FF side, aside from maybe not wanting to, not feeling comfortable….I don’t know, I don’t see what debatable over there.
What I do have a problem with IRL is BF offering advice, trying to educate, that’s fine to want to educate…but do so if the person seems interested, or asks. When I’ve been approached many times with the same question “why do you FF, don’t you know breastfeeding is better?” I feel like they must think I’m stupid….it’s a rude, invading question to ask, feeding my child as I see it is a personal choice that should be respected, especially by strangers. My daughter is thriving, meeting milestones early,and a chunky 6 1/2 month old baby, and that’s the main thing. The thing that FF need to understand is that we made our choice,we have to stick by it…and stop defending it cause that’s where ppl start thinking we feel “guilty” which is too funny in my opinion. Once they turn 6 months anyhow a new debate starts with solids, which I’m happy to say my daughter is on and she loves them, solids at 6 months are not for every baby, but it was for mine, and she still drinks basically the same amt of formula as well.
K I’ve rambled on enough, in the end what the heck does it matter to anyone else what we feed our kids???
June 12th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Get off my high horse? No, thanks. I’m quite happy up here. My “freaking high horse” is the only thing protecting me from having to get knee deep in the bullshit ya’ll have being spread around here.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Some of these are funny. But, really, making fun of those who actually TRY, with their parenting, rather than just “make do”, and hope for nothing more than”fine” for their kids isn’t my style.
Might be yours, though. I guess your kids will be just a few less my kids will have to beat when it comes to college admission. More power to you.
Why is it, ALWAYS, that those who don’t care enough to breastfeed ALWAYS know a breastfeeding mom who is a smoker-drinker-junkie-child molester-NAZI (funny, as the real Nazis hated breastfeeding, as it would take longer for good Aryan women to get fertile and be able to get pregnant a second time with the next spawn for the Fadderlund! And they felt breastfeeding “spoiled and coddled Der Kinder.” So, whose the Nazi?)
And of course, every non-breastfeeder has a friend-sister in law-neighbor-crazy sister whose kids are “brats-spoiled-always sick-stupid-badly behaved-dirty-spoiled” ect? Did I say “spoiled” already? Seems to be the favored word of the Scary Brown Powder in a Can Feeder Crowd. OMG, actually LISTENING to one’s offspring? Too much work. Anyone who does ANY MORE than an occasional wipe to the kid’s face, and plop some multicolored junk on the table for every meal, and dump the kid on any willing passerby, so you can get on with your life is worthy of YOUR disdain.
The blog is really the Call of the Slacker in every sense of the word. “Good Enough Parenting” and making fun of those who really CARE about the humans whom THEY created in the first place.
Like I said, thank you, slacker parents. My kids had the advantage when they were little, and still on the breast, and the ones who are in college have it in grades, and eventual job worthiness, and the little ones will have less trouble later, with your Slacker Genes, and Scary-Brown Powder-in-a-Can (is that FOOD? Would YOU eat it? I DARE you. Drink 8 oz of that stuff every 4 hours, see how YUMMY it is.) fed kids to not have to compete with when College Time comes along.
Or is College, “The Best” and too much to work for, as well? Hey, they can always say, “Do ya want fries wit dat?” It’s “good enough.” It’s “fine.” It “never killed anyone.” Of course not. But, like the rest of your blather, it still SUCKS. But, if “fine” is the BEST you can offer the very people YOU brought into the world, I feel for you. Sadly.
At any rate. You’ve only made it easier for those of us who TRY.
Keep up the mediochre, crappy, less than the best, not have to try too hard Parents
The Betters will always thank you for someone else having to be on the bottom on the Pile. Better YOUR kids than mine.
What a service you all do, to YOUR kids and OURS.
Thank you. I mean that.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Mirth - well done! Thank you for finding the irony in all of this; by making fun of others’ parenting choices (which I do myself all the time), one can TRULY become the best parent evah-evah.
::bows down::
June 12th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
As a matter of fact, I’ve never had my hand slapped by the mods, unlike so many of you over there. (you may want to ask Jani how much hot water she got into a few years ago).You can’t “out” me, you have no idea who I am lol. Unlike yourselves, who post so much personal info it’s scary. That board used to be so much better, there was mutual respect for everyone regardless of feeding method. Now, it’s just a forum for bf’ers to discuss amongst themselves how superior they are to moms who don’t bf. When you’re not patting yourselves on the back you resort to sarcasm and thinly disguised ridicule of those who formula feed. (remember, no sarcasm!) Your support doesn’t bother me, it’s the “my way or the highway” mentality attitude that is a turn-off. Sure, EC boards are public, but then why did all of you get a warning for talking about support boards and using them for debate? Hmm? By the way, I’m feeling GREAT, just like I was yesterday!
June 12th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Excellent post and I couldn’t agree more.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Why don’t you ladies take your beefs back to you birth boards, this is boring and I came here for a laugh.
dcz: You’re a fucking idiot.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
@dcz: Yes, your kids will be in college while my kids are serving fries. But don’t worry: when they’re 30, your kids will still be living at home with all their degrees, while mine will be running their chain of restaurants.
June 12th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
You forgot to post those links for everyone to see how we Stormtroopers love to ridicule FFers. Maybe because you can’t find them?
“As a matter of fact, I’ve never had my hand slapped by the mods”
Of course you haven’t.
“you may want to ask Jani how much hot water she got into a few years ago”
So? Pulling context out of a conversation from years ago is moot and immature. As long as I’ve known that poster, her screen name has not changed. “hot water” = getting banned. I enjoy her posts very much because she refuses to play along with the “don’t you dare judge me, I’m NOT a bad mommy” crowd (and in my 6+ years on that board I never seen a BFer say anything remotely like that to a FFer). But of course *you* were the exception, which must be why you are still licking your wounds…you know, holding bitter grudges against people you don’t know for non-existent reasons isn’t hurting anyone but yourself. What’s that saying? Hate is like acid; it does more damage to the vessel in which it is stored than the object on which it is poured…
“You can’t “out” me, you have no idea who I am lol. ”
Again, it would be immature to bother. I don’t care who you are. Your misinterpretation of the iVillage board is very telling.
“Your support doesn’t bother me, it’s the “my way or the highway” mentality attitude that is a turn-off. ”
Yyyyyyeahhhh, again? you’re gonna hafta show where this mentality exists. Maybe post a link or two. You can keep sayin’ it but that doesn’t make it true.
“Sure, EC boards are public, but then why did all of you get a warning for talking about support boards and using them for debate?”
For the same reason that the ECs got warnings for dissing the debators on the other board. And continue to do so.
Anyway, enough about you. Hope that’s OK. Feel better!
To FF by choice: good for you! I don’t think that anyone (save a few wingnuts) believes that for some people, breastfeeding just isn’t for them (or that there is no excuse good enough). Honestly, no judgment on your parenting skills! What bugs me most is the blatant misinformation that is put out there by healthcare professionals, formula companies, etc. –you’d truly be surprised at how many people don’t think there’s a big difference between the two substances.
Formula will always be available and there will always be people who choose it, for whatever reason. True lactivists just want to make sure that the people who choose it understand the risks involved. How would you feel if for example your doctor said that it would be fine to use cow milk -based formula but didn’t tell you that there was an increased risk of an allergic reaction, and your baby had that reaction? Would you feel guilty? Would you be pissed off at an internet forum full of people who are trying to get the actual information out there? I’d say no. You should be pissed at the doctor for not giving you all the information; you may have made a different choice if you knew.
There’s *no* reason for you to feel guilty. Blogs like these, and the responses from like-minded individuals, seem to perpetuate this notion that you SHOULD feel guilty, and that’s a shame. Make whatever choice you feel is best, own it, and get rid of your guilt. It doesn’t do you any good. And anyone in real life who would come up to you and ask you why you formula feed, doesn’t deserve an answer. Well maybe “why on earth would you ask me that question?” followed by a cold stare.
June 12th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Take your beef with the IV board…to the IV board. This back and forth is really pathetic. And boring.
Bravo to FF by choice. I’m a BF’er by choice, but I respect any parent who makes a decision and owns it and doesn’t go around whining about it.
Feeding methods do not make one a “best parent ever.” I think that’s something both sides can agree on. At least the reasonable factions of both sides.
June 12th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
No need for me to link posts; all one has to do is simply read the board to understand that the board has an attitude of superiority because the majority bf and one of condescension for those who don’t. Gee, it’s so nice of you to concern yourself with me and keep telling me to “feel better”! Is it because you think that those who don’t agree with your viewpoint must have something wrong with them? That they’re having a bad day or something? No grudges held here or wound licking; life’s too short for that immature stuff!
June 12th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Oh Gawd, now I am pissed at both sides of the debate!
Breastmilk is better than formula….no shit Sherlock! Everyone and their grandmother knows that!
Breastfeeders-If you want to breastfeed your kids, have at it!! It doesn’t make you special, you don’t win the Mommy Olympics and it doesn’t entitle you to any special treatment or regard. It really doesn’t make you the Best Parent Ever. Really. Afterall, you are only doing what every dog, cat, rat, and hippopotomus does. Whoppdidddy-do! You can lactate!!! Cool it on the advocacy, the self congratulations and the public breastfeeding(yeah you think you “nursling” is adorable and you need everyone else to agree, but c’mon! keep your veiny milk swollen tits to yourself!!!! My eyes! My eyes!!) and life amongst the mommy set will be so much more pleasant.
FFer’s- STOP playing the victim!!! You made your choice, own it and don’t apologize for it. Your kid will still be a happy healthy little Einstien whether you breastfeed or not. As the blogger said, most North Americans were formula fed and only a few of us are blithering idiots. Don’t give the lactivists ammo! Just dismiss their puerile attempts at attention-whoring for what it is….you know, consider the source! If someone is so ill mannered as to question you on what you feed your kids, or worse yet, lecture you on it…well they are an idiot and why would you care what they think? It is annoying to hear a FFer say “I tried to breastfeed but(insert sob story here)”. You aren’t doing yourselves any favors by attempting to forestall judgment…you just come off whiny and immature.
<> I second that!
June 12th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
I’ve lurked at the IV board for a long time as a formula feeder myself. I tried to breastfeed my first but it didn’t work out and I wasn’t willing to risk some of the serious problems that I had with my second. Long story and I don’t want to get into it. But my point to saying this is that I’ve never seen Jani get her hand slapped. There have been many days I bet when the formula feeders wish that she would though. She’s probably had the least amount of deleted posts over the years as any regular that I’ve ever seen there. her posts are often on the line and make people want to argue with her but too afraid to. for the ones that do their posts get deleted because they’re posting mad and hers stay.
I get tired of hearing about how formula is inferior as much as the next mom, and i don’t like how some moms approach the issue of advocacy for breast. I just don’t think that it’s cool for you to be so unfair and dishonest towards those debators because you disagree and can attack anonymously. JMHO.
June 12th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Ah, the old “no need for me to link posts” argument. In other words, “I can’t back up what I’m saying!” It’s okay. You do have a great idea, for people to see for themselves and I hope people take you up on it.
The reason I keep telling you to feel better is because you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder and it’s very unhealthy. It’s just an internet forum, for chrissake. Just like this one. Breathe!
Namaste.
June 12th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
WTH? The end of my post was supposed to say
“dcz: you’re a fecking idiot” I second that!
June 12th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Yikes! do you think ur breast milk is the cure all ?? that say by BFing your newborn means , he/she will never have anything bad happen to them in the future, that they will grow up to be world leaders because they got to suck on ur boobs all day long ? no i dont think so
June 12th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Wow Lady in Red, Hyperbole much?? Your post was just as inane as the rest of ‘em have been over the last few days!!
If your eyes hurt from looking at all the veiny milk swollen tits on display around you, here’s a novel idea: Don’t Look!
whew, talk about whiny and immature. Here’s a mirror!
June 12th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Well thank you to the ladies who respected my post and my opinion!!
I do own my choice to FF and have been very fortunate so far that my little one has been so healthy, so far she has not been sick once!! ( I know it’s gonna come one day soon…but I still had to gloat…lol)
To: “Form Feeder, you forgot something :-)”
I’m a bit confused as to your 1st comment “I don’t think that anyone (save a few wingnuts) believes that for some people, breastfeeding just isn’t for them (or that there is no excuse good enough)”
Are you saying that the feeling I and others have is not believable? (Sorry having a blond moment…lol)
To answer your 2nd question about a possible formula allergy,I would be mad if that ever happened. Thankfully here in Canada (don’t know if it’s this way in the states…) when you’re in the hospital they start all babies out on one formula, and see if they have a reaction, my daughter did very well on it and still is so there has been no reason to switch or worry about that. If she had a reaction I’d imagine they would have switched the formula and tried figuring out the problem, I’m happy that it was all dealt with in the hospital!To also respond to you regarding the fact that you want to educate FF of the risks, you should think about the fact that maybe they have? While I was pregnant I wrestled with the idea for quite some time, read books and articles on both FF and BF, I just could not get over the uncomfortable factor, to me that was the deal breaker, so regardless of the risks I made the choice to FF, after that choice was made, I feel like the topic is closed, any education past that point to me is nosy, forward, rude, and very uncalled for. Now, if I was on the fence about whether to FF or BF and voiced that to someone and they offered their opinion, or if I asked, that’s a different story and where education would have been welcome. Bottom line in my book is no need to educate someone that has already made up their mind, I tried that with my mom to get her to quit smoking….it’s like beating a dead horse…
I do agree there is no reason to feel guilty…and I’m happy I don’t, that’s the message I was trying to get across to the other FF’s, you do have to own it!On the other hand I have full respect for BF’s, it’s no easy task so I’ve heard.
In the end we are all moms, we all want the same thing for our kids, we don’t all have the same views on everything and thank god cause then this would be a world of robots we’d live in!!
June 12th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Best Parent Ever
If I don’t look, then I deprive the darling mother of her audience! The only reason to breastfeed publicly is so everyone gets an eyeful in order to advertise just what a Special Mama you are!
FWIW, there is a huge difference between publicly breastfeeding and breastfeeding in public. Public breastfeeding is meant to be just that, public. Get all eyes on you and your mammaries, cause You Are Special and everyone must know it!! They must! They must acknowlege their own inferiority to You, Goddes La Leche! To the woman who publicly breastfeeds, the baby is a mere accessory to her greatness, a prop, an afterthought.
Breastfeeding in public is a day to day event that elicts little notice because mom wishes it so. She is discreet and it is nearly impossible to know what she is doing…cause you know, she has class and all that.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
OK, this is more like it, an adult conversation. Thank you!
“I’m a bit confused as to your 1st comment “I don’t think that anyone (save a few wingnuts) believes that for some people, breastfeeding just isn’t for them (or that there is no excuse good enough)”
Are you saying that the feeling I and others have is not believable? (Sorry having a blond moment…lol)”
Oh no no no, not at all! Sorry for the word salad. I meant, there are very few people who advocate breastfeeding who ALSO BELIEVE that there is no excuse not to. Speaking for myself (all I can do ;-)), I know there are lots of reasons out there why women cannot or choose not to BF, and it’s not for me to decide if that’s a valid reason or not. God knows I don’t always make the right decision, but I try to weigh the pros & cons before I make it, as I am sure most parents do!
There *are* a few militants out there, but blogs like this make it seem like ALL lactivists are like that, and that’s not fair. That’s what I’m railing against. It’s a very small minority. This small minority will also have an opinion on your decision to let your child cry it out, or whether you circumcise, cloth diaper, or any other thing. Those are the people to just ignore, or laugh at. But please don’t confuse advocacy with bat-sh*t-ness!
Also to clear up a misunderstanding, it’s not about telling FFers that they are taking risks. It’s about trying to educate the pregnant woman who has that choice in front of her (IOW, hasn’t decided yet) about facts that her doctor may not know about, and that the Similac website is probably not the place to go for advice on breastfeeding.
.
I don’t know of anyone who would say anything to a woman who’s already made her choice; that would be extremely rude. (The exception IS the debate board, but that’s only when someone brings their issue to us. We don’t seek out people to bring them down, in fact we go out of our way to approach the issue from a “we’re not judging YOU, just the substance” standpoint. Every other post has a disclaimer of some sort, it seems! Hope that made sense!)
Anyway, thank you for the exchange. I agree 100% with your last paragraph.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
All you formula feeders better get a goat or a wet nurse because after 2012 . . .
June 12th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
I agree that there is a difference in publicly breastfeeding and breastfeeding in public. I am a breast feeder and have had to feed my son in a public place, but I try my best to do so in a discreet way. I don’t care that it is a natural thing and that I am within my rights to breastfeed where ever and whenever I want, I don’t need anyone looking at my breast and my child while he is eating from it. I don’t like watching other women breast feeding, I don’t like anyone watching me.
This debate of BF vs FF is pointless. As parents we all have a million choices a day to make regarding our children, and we all do the best we can. I believe bfeeding is best, but I do my best not to judge those who choose to ffeed. I don’t know why she made that choice and it is not for me to say anything. There may be some other thing that she does better than me. Raising kids is hard enough. Let’s just try and be supportive of each other.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Who gets to decide the difference between “publicly bfing” and BFIP? You? Because You are Special and have been ordained by Almighty God to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner of anyone who DARES feed her child in Your Presence?
Grow the fuck up! Their boobs. They feed babies. Maybe you’re just jealous that some women actually have a pair.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
*sniffle sniffle* You mean my DD’s don’t count as a “pair”? Well that sucks! Dh is going to be so pissed off when he finds out!
June 12th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I see the claws haven’t been out to scratch for awhile. Maybe everyone is busy feeding their kids.
June 13th, 2008 at 12:24 am
In response to my new BF friend (what is your name…lol, mine is Jen)
Ok, I got confused, now I understand what you meant, I swear I still have pregnancy brain..hehe!
I do agree that there are militants out there, for BF and FF…and then there are the ppl that are just plain rude and their comments are embarassing…gives both parties a bad name and should be ignored!!!
Yes doctors and peds are not God by any means, I do find I’ve been mis-informed a good couple of times,and as a 1st time mom I was naive in the beginning and listened, so I can imagine when a women gets bad BF advice it can factor into whether she continues to BF or not. What a wonderful thing to have resources and ppl who BF willing to help a new BF’er…I know that If I had BF I probably would have tons of questions…
Anyways, thank you as well….it’s nice to have a civilized conversation about this subject, and at least we both leave the convo understanding one another a little bit better!!!!
June 13th, 2008 at 1:32 am
That was the sound of the concept going right over LadyinRed’s head.
Maybe other women aren’t as scared as you are to feed their babies without draping 16 layers of fabric, setting up a privacy screen, and, if all else fails, cowering off to some nasty public toilet.
Most people I know who are so prudish as to be opposed to NIP, oppose it, not because of the amount of flesh exposed, but because of what is “going on” under there.
A baby is sucking on a breast!! Horror of horrors!!
Even if a woman allows the delicate sensibilities of a complete moron to send her running to the toilet, the moron with the over-inflated sense of entitlement will still have an issue. Just the IDEA of a baby nursing in a public or semi-public place is what sets these fools off. Notice no one ever complains about cleavage when a baby’s head ISN’T in the way of the “view”……
June 13th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Ah, we are kindred spirits! My name is also Jen! Here’s hoping this is the end and all us slacker moms can move onto the next subject. Attachment parenting, anyone? (LOL!!)
June 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
With regards to your post #3, again I couldn’t agree with you more. I too am a first time mom and I honestly never realized FF vs. BF was a debatable topic–it doesn’t make sense.
What saddens me most is the nastiness that is going on on both sides of this fence. It’s no wonder why some of our youth in the US today have so many anger issues!
June 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Hi everyone,
As someone who as BF and supplemented both of my kids, I can honestly see both sides here. And, lol, I think all this is really about everyone being defensive and not seeing the real issue. Babies are NOT convenient. Unfortunately, most moms don’t realize thus until they get here. Then, that mom has to make a decision between what is best for her baby, her family life, and what hoops she is willing to jump through to give “the best” to her baby. And, some moms DO jump through those hoops for BF, only to find that they can’t quit get there for a variety of reasons.
I do think BM/BF is best. And, I pumped 8-12x a day in addition to BF and then supplementing with a bottle at EVERY feed for both of my kids. I can understand why some women would not want to do this or simply could not make this work. I worked FT from the point when both of mine were 3 months old, and boy was it hard. Luckily, I had my own office and a work situation that was flexible enough for me to pump in my office. Not all women are this lucky. And, we all aren’t 10 minute pumpers either. But, I also do think that moms who simply chose formula only because it is “easier” are, well, not making the best choice for their child. Do I run out and attack these moms at the mall? No, how silly….Although I have said a few things to moms beating the crap out of their toddlers at the grocery store! Formula isn’t going to kill them…child abuse can…
I’ve just developed a BF & Supplementing Blog to help moms like me who didn’t “fit in” anywhere among the BF or FF. The BF moms looked down on me because they assumed I wasn’t trying hard enough. The FF moms thought I was bonkers and didn’t understand why I worked so hard for so little BM when I had to give formula on top if it anyways.
I hope the blog will be a permanent place to put answers to a lot of common questions and a good resource for moms like me. I’m planning on posting questions to all the common issues on the blog. I’ve found that people tend to post here with questions but seldom search the board for other similar posts. I’m hoping the blog will help put all the issues in one convenient and easy to find spot when they are looking for fast information and don’t want to wait on a reply!
I’m also the CL on the ivillage BF & Supplementing board. No, we aren’t a bunch of spoiled women who hate BF or FF…they are just moms struggling to make BF work with whatever cards they are dealt, and some also supplement by choice or for convenience.
Anyway, life isn’t black and white and neither is BF or FF.
http://bfandsupplementing.blogspot.com/
June 13th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Back to the blog though. Why is it I NEVER see an article or blog bashing formula feeders, actually calling them “bad mothers” or calling formula “rat poison”. It doesn’t actually happen. Breastfeeders in general don’t look down of formula feeders - show me where that’s happening. Giving someone “the look” hardly qualifies, it’s quite subjective. Pointing to some debate board as proof hardly qualifies, either. How are these breastfeeders ACTUALLY claiming to be better than those who don’t breastfeed?
What I DO see though is a free-for-all in breastfeeder-basing, this blog included. How is it that when someone can’t own their choice, all they have to do is pull the other side down by CLAIMING that they are calling them names and claiming to be discriminating against them and putting themselves up on a pedestal. Well, hello bloggers - it’s YOU who’s the one who’s standing up all high and mighty.
Don’t let this downward spiral of comments distract from the real issue. Formula feeders can SAY ANYTHING they want about breastfeeders’ motivation, and the moment breastfeeders open their mouths, they are “storm troopers”? Come on.
You must think yourself awfully important to believe that I am interested in making YOU feel bad for your choice or in standing up on a pedestal somewhere. I could care less about you and your reasons for choosing or not choosing what you have. What I am interested in is feeding my own child, and supporting those who need support in feeding their children, passing on what I have learned, what I would have wanted someone to share with me, to make it easier to be successful in my choice. Please, do not be deluded into thinking that my decision or anyone else decision to breastfeed or be a breastfeeding advocate had anything to do with you.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Kate,
Who are you even talking to? Or are you usuing the universal YOU? First off, the blog clearly says breast is best. How is that insulting breastfeeders. Secondly, it’s obvious you don’t care about anyone but yourself. Fuck off.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I love my fellow Jen’s…would it be too forward to say that all Jen’s are the Best Parent’s Ever…LMAO!
To Me: The best thing to do in situations like this in my opinion is realize that this arguing is never ending, there will always be someone who doesn’t have the same views as we do…and that’s ok….that makes us individuals, it’s not ok though to tear ppl down with harsh words, it’s really easy on a blog or forum to say nasty things, but I always think…now would I say this IRL…to this person’s or anyone else’s face? Usually it’s a no….
I never realized having a kid brings up so many controversies, this has been a very interesting 6 1/2 months so far!
June 13th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Looks like Kate struck a nerve, lol.
BTW, wonderful post, Kate!
June 14th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
To The Best Parent Ever,
I hope your parents, parents-in-law, brothers, sisters, husband is all FULL breastfed when they’re young.
Can’t imagine their reaction when being called ‘DUNCE’ by the so-called “The Best Parent Ever”.
Have a nice day.
June 14th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
To “Hello…FF here once again! :)” …. Well said. P
I wouldn’t judge or look down on on others just because they used formula; heck, I did so myself and probably 90% of mothers use formula at some point. Seems a little unrealistic next to the numbers that there’s enough breastfeeders judging formula feeders to spark these articles and blogs condemning those who breastfeed as N@##s or accusing others as bad mothers.
I admit it though, and I do judge others based on how they treat people, whether it’s their friends, enemies or strangers, be it in person or hiding behind an anonymous name on the internet.
To “Dear Storm Trooper”, it’s clear in my comment that I was talking to the blogger, the original piece, as I presume that the reason comments are able to be left at all is so that the original writer can get some feedback. But if you like, you can consider
this comment as though it were to you. I haven’t heard comments like what you gave since I graduated high school. It’s quite ugly and that I am certain is poison around a child.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Hey Kimbo, keeping score are you? What, do the ivillage bf’ers win another self serving trophy in the mommy olympics?
I’ve been reading over that board and they really do come across as holier-than thou and that if you don’t bf you’re just not as good a parent as them.
June 15th, 2008 at 5:52 am
Dear Hey:
I would just like to know, what in particular makes you feel that the board on ivillage is holier than thou? I’ve been reading all night and personally, I haven’t found anything that strikes me in that way. I wouldn’t mind hearing another perspective though, I am sure you are taking things differently than I am.
As for scorekeeping - I think that post was made in jest and really doesn’t warrant a “trophy” comment - I mean, it’s not like the lady (Kimbo, I think?) said “we really are better hahaha.” It was a joke, yanno?
*shrug*
June 15th, 2008 at 6:02 am
Just wondering - has anyone here ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy? I wonder if some moms go into the world believing that all other mothers are supposed to act a certain way: ie: the FF mother who has been conditioned to think that all BF moms are militant a - holes. Or the BF mom who is conditioned to think all FF moms disapprove of her nursing in public. And by going out into the world with these assumptions, we act in ways that bring about the behaviour we expected when it could have been avoided by acting in other ways.
Just sayin…there seem to be a lot of people on both sides who feel guilt or like to make blanket statements about the other side. Not all breastfeeding mothers are militant lactivists who are going to approach you in the local WalMart to accost you with vile names and pro BF information. Not all FF mothers are going to feel judged or angry when they see a mother BF and not all FF are going to have a sob story to make the BF want to roll their eyes. I’d say that the majority of BF are content in their own choice and are perfectly happy to keep it to themselves unless someone brings it up. I’d say the majority of FF are content in their own choice and are perfectly happy to keep it themselves unless someone brings it up.
But to assert that EITHER side is going to behave in X way all or even most of the time is just silly. Mommy olympics is a rather juvenile term used to describe a subset of women that probably have no idea this blog even exists! (I should add: in my opinion, as a disclaimer).
The real point is: Most people don’t give a crap what you feed your kid until you make it their business. If you come to a debate board looking for sympathy about your choice, that is unreasonable. It is unreasonable to group all women from either side into a category in your mind. It is unreasonable to assume all FF are lazy, uninformed parents, and that all BF consider themselves superior and more accomplished.
The real argument is in dispelling myths. FF tend to propogate myths, often because they aren’t aware of the correct information. BF propogate myths too. Both sides judge each other, both sides play unfairly. I think the real meat of the argument lies in that there are a lot of people willing to bash BFer’s and put them in a holier than thou category without being able to step back and realize that there are just as many holier than thou mothers in the FF camp, and they deserve to be degraded with the same scathing commentary.
I mean, in all fairness, anyway.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
As long as we’re supposed to be keeping score, I just want to point out that as an ivillage debate poster, I have never seen “kimbo” post there before so I’m not sure how representative of the board her post really is.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
someone said: “dcz: You’re a fucking idiot.”
Wow, you are really articulate. Your mama must be proud of you. You can say nasty words.
Go pat yourself on the back. For being a mean, nasty potty mouth, as well as a Slacker Parent.
God Bless.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Anecdotally-
My mother had 4 children - all FF’d. My MIL had 5, all BF’d.
All 9 of us attended or graduated from college (and finances are the only reason college was not completed by all 9). Three have horrendous allergies - they are the BF’d ones. 8 of us wear glasses - the only one who doesn’t was FF’d. All of us are generally healthy. And , otherwise, we’re all fairly equal. Formula didn’t make us stupid, fat, or ill.
Sure, anecdotal evidence isn’t “proof.” But I prefer to base my life on real life experiences, not “studies.”
I BF’d my 1st for 6 months. My 2nd for 11. And my 3rd for 6 weeks.
I am honestly happiest with my FF baby. I *love* that my DH can help feed the baby. I can actually LOOK into my son’s eyes, instead of him looking at my boobs. I love that he sleeps on his own, instead of needing to be attached to me all night long (like my elder son).
Do whatever you want to do. I’m pro *Feeding*, not method.
Yes, people are very critical on EITHER side of the issue. What does it matter to you how I feed my child? My children are healthy and happy. So am I.
Neither side should feel superior…
June 17th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
…is not “data.”
While your life experiences are no doubt meaningful to you (and I’m glad your FF kids are doing so well, honestly!), you had no way of knowing when you made your choice how they would react to formula, so your life experiences were not based on real-life experiences OR studies at the time of the decision……
Whoever said formula would make ANYONE stupid, fat or ill? This must be that faction of Storm Troopers that exists somewhere but nobody has ever seen. Sorta like the Tooth Fairy……(but it does sound like *you* are trying to make a case for kids who are breastfed having to wear glasses and eat Claritin for the rest of their lives, based on your anecdotes…..:-D )
It almost sounds like you are basing your favoritism on your one child on how you fed him/her as an infant. That’s kinda weird.
I’ve breastfed all my kids except the first (FF) for over 2 years, and none of them are (or were) attached to me all night long, and they don’t look into my boobs instead of my eyes!. Not sure where you got that this is what BF kids do, but whatever…..(I’d tell you all about my FF kid and how she is different from the others, but that’s just an anecdote and really has nothing to do with this issue at all…….)
What does it matter to me what you feed your child you ask? It doesn’t. Why do *you* think it matters?
As someone else mentioned a few days ago, to assume that an entire “side” feels superior is not accurate and a little silly, not to mention judgmental….. There *are* some people on both “sides” who seem to feel superior— but I suspect that this doesn’t have anything to do with how anyone feeds their baby and more to do with their own issues…..
June 17th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
This is the thread that will not end
Yes,it goes on and on my friend
Somebody started posting stuff
It grew a great big crowd
And they’ll continue posting crap forever just because
This is the thread that will not end
June 17th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
calling such women a name that classes them with the worst mass murderers in human history? please.
I just wanted to say that my coworker actually called herself this; nursing nazi is not my phrase.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:21 am